*ineffectual grrrr*
Feb. 12th, 2010 11:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
crossover_chickI have rage! Unfortunately, it is the kind of rage which requires research, which I don't want to do.
-Muses: *absolutely confused*-
-VD2: What in the name of Sir Isaac H. Newton upset you?-
The Corpse Bride fandom!
-D: *facepalm* I thought you said you weren't looking at the FF.net forums anymore.-
No, this happened on devART. I came across a fandom quiz somebody did in their journal -- the person's a Victor/Victoria shipper, and she was going, "I don't hate Emily, but she has too many fans, too many people want to do Victor/Emily AUs, blah blah blah"
-TD: I fail to see the reason for the "rage," as you put it.-
Let me put it this way -- there are two many shipping camps in CB fandom, as is only natural. Let's call them VVs (Victor/Victoria shippers) and VEs (Victor/Emily shippers). Each group has their own unique fault:
VEs bash. VVs whine.
Allow me to elaborate. VEs can be a downright vicious bunch when it comes to Victoria. I've seen plenty of fanfics where nobody gives half a damn about forcing her to spend the rest of her (probably very short) life with Barkis. I've also seen some fanfics which completely warp the poor girl's personality. The Victoria we see in the film is a somewhat shy, but very sweet girl, who has a hidden spine of steel if she believes someone she loves is in trouble. (Poor girl, she didn't know Pastor Galswells would be that much of a jerkass.) However, I've seen fics that turn her into an alcoholic, accuse her of having no personality, have her cheat on Victor, and even one where she's basically turned into Barkis and steals all his money. That shit ain't right. I've also seen some nasty stuff said about her wandering old message boards and looking at V/E stuff on devART. Calling her stupid, boring -- the works. It's even mentioned in TV Tropes -- CB has an entry under "Die For Our Ship." It gets on one's nerves, to the point where I can't read a lot of V/E stuff (though I do like a couple on there, where Victoria's portrayed positively and just wants Victor to be happy). The VVs are right when they say the VEs can be mean to them.
But. . .
The VVs also NEVER SHUT UP ABOUT IT. They like to complain about "Oh, how everyone wants to see Victor with Emily, we're so alone, help help I'm being repressed."
Now, I've visited the Victor/Victoria and Victor/Emily fanclubs on devART.
THE VICTOR/VICTORIA ONE IS BIGGER.
And I'm almost certain it's the same here with the one on LJ! At the very least, it died AFTER the Victor/Emily one! And there's quite a few Victor/Victoria fics on FF.net -- I don't know if they and the Victor/Emily fics are equal in number, but it's NOT the gap they're making it out to be! I can understand that they've got some legitimate complaints about how the VEs treat their favored lady, but STOP ACTING LIKE YOU'RE A REPRESSED MINORITY. YOU'RE NOT.
And frankly, some of THEM can be pretty mean about Emily -- I've heard comments like "giggly" and "airheaded," which I don't think fits Emily at all. Emily can be obsessive, and definitely has a temper, but she's also rather sweet. She just wants to believe the best of her new "husband," and make him happy. And need I remind you that, although she was desperate to have Victor stay with her, the INSTANT she realized doing so would lead to his death, she said, "I could never ask him." Emily nearly nixed the ceremony before it even happened! That's NOT the "do anything for marriage" girl some of the VVs make her out to be!
While I'm on the subject, I've also noticed that some of the VVs like to use the companion book, "An Invitation to the Wedding," to provide proof that the people behind the story are shipping the pair. Fair enough, it is mentioned multiple times that Victoria is supposed to be a heroine, as she's the ultimate winner of the triangle. But I would also like to point out that they also say, on page 21 (emphasis mine): "Just as important to Burton as finding the right setting for his story was getting the correct tone for the film's love triangle. 'We needed to find the proper balance, because in several drafts Victor leaned too much toward Corpse Bride, others leaned more toward Victoria. With this kind of love triangle, you need to feel for both women. The audience needed to feel that Victor wasn't a jerk, he had a really tough decision to make. Finally I felt good that we got the right balance." Yeah, I think you did too good a job!
-TTV: Oooh, God. . .don't any of them get along?-
. . . Actually, yes. I should point out that, over here on LJ, I saw the VVs and VEs actually getting along pretty well. And the VanDorks group on devART -- Victor's fanclub -- has (or had, at least) three officers -- one a VV, one a VE, and one a Victor/Other. Really, it isn't all fans who act like that. It's just those certain ones -- ! And I think it's a bit worse for me because of my Victoria/Victor/Emily shipping ways -- I get the feeling I'm seeing even more of the worst of the stupid because I'm right in the middle. God, I'd kill for a good threesome fic. There's not really any on FF.net.
-VD2: Really? None?-
There's a couple that come close -- one where Emily basically picks up Victor and Victoria upon their deaths, one where Victoria tells Victor she'll give him back to Emily after they die, and the one I feel is the closest, where Victoria gives Victor back to Emily, only to have them call her back and tell her, "Come with us -- we won't be happy without you." Not quite what I'm looking for, though I suppose what I'm looking for I'll have to write myself.
-M: *jokingly* You can't even pretend with any of the slash fics?-
No, though that's just because I find the premise of a couple implausible. I'm certainly not against Victoria/Emily, because of my threesome leanings, but really, any that start with Victoria putting the ring on Emily's finger should have this happen:
Emily: *rises from ground, lifts veil* I d-- you're a girl.
This is fictional repressed Victorian England, people. Get some mileage out of the fact they'd be angsting about their lesbianism on top of the potential necrophilia.
-MF: I think you need to go back to your Victor/Alice corner.-
I think I do too. I'm sorry for ranting at you all -- I just wanted it off my chest, and the people I want to rant to -- well, half aren't around anymore, and of those who remain, the ones who would get it aren't the ones I'm complaining about, and the ones I'm complaining about would probably just go, "Oh she's a V/_ shipper, figures." It doesn't help that I had kind of a lousy day at work, AND the red curse showed up about three hours ago. *sulks*
-HD: *hesitantly offers tea* Perhaps you should go back to reading your screencap playthrough?-
Yeah, I should. Getting close to the end here. And I really ought to figure out some sort of image to make for Valentine's. . . .
-Muses: *absolutely confused*-
-VD2: What in the name of Sir Isaac H. Newton upset you?-
The Corpse Bride fandom!
-D: *facepalm* I thought you said you weren't looking at the FF.net forums anymore.-
No, this happened on devART. I came across a fandom quiz somebody did in their journal -- the person's a Victor/Victoria shipper, and she was going, "I don't hate Emily, but she has too many fans, too many people want to do Victor/Emily AUs, blah blah blah"
-TD: I fail to see the reason for the "rage," as you put it.-
Let me put it this way -- there are two many shipping camps in CB fandom, as is only natural. Let's call them VVs (Victor/Victoria shippers) and VEs (Victor/Emily shippers). Each group has their own unique fault:
VEs bash. VVs whine.
Allow me to elaborate. VEs can be a downright vicious bunch when it comes to Victoria. I've seen plenty of fanfics where nobody gives half a damn about forcing her to spend the rest of her (probably very short) life with Barkis. I've also seen some fanfics which completely warp the poor girl's personality. The Victoria we see in the film is a somewhat shy, but very sweet girl, who has a hidden spine of steel if she believes someone she loves is in trouble. (Poor girl, she didn't know Pastor Galswells would be that much of a jerkass.) However, I've seen fics that turn her into an alcoholic, accuse her of having no personality, have her cheat on Victor, and even one where she's basically turned into Barkis and steals all his money. That shit ain't right. I've also seen some nasty stuff said about her wandering old message boards and looking at V/E stuff on devART. Calling her stupid, boring -- the works. It's even mentioned in TV Tropes -- CB has an entry under "Die For Our Ship." It gets on one's nerves, to the point where I can't read a lot of V/E stuff (though I do like a couple on there, where Victoria's portrayed positively and just wants Victor to be happy). The VVs are right when they say the VEs can be mean to them.
But. . .
The VVs also NEVER SHUT UP ABOUT IT. They like to complain about "Oh, how everyone wants to see Victor with Emily, we're so alone, help help I'm being repressed."
Now, I've visited the Victor/Victoria and Victor/Emily fanclubs on devART.
THE VICTOR/VICTORIA ONE IS BIGGER.
And I'm almost certain it's the same here with the one on LJ! At the very least, it died AFTER the Victor/Emily one! And there's quite a few Victor/Victoria fics on FF.net -- I don't know if they and the Victor/Emily fics are equal in number, but it's NOT the gap they're making it out to be! I can understand that they've got some legitimate complaints about how the VEs treat their favored lady, but STOP ACTING LIKE YOU'RE A REPRESSED MINORITY. YOU'RE NOT.
And frankly, some of THEM can be pretty mean about Emily -- I've heard comments like "giggly" and "airheaded," which I don't think fits Emily at all. Emily can be obsessive, and definitely has a temper, but she's also rather sweet. She just wants to believe the best of her new "husband," and make him happy. And need I remind you that, although she was desperate to have Victor stay with her, the INSTANT she realized doing so would lead to his death, she said, "I could never ask him." Emily nearly nixed the ceremony before it even happened! That's NOT the "do anything for marriage" girl some of the VVs make her out to be!
While I'm on the subject, I've also noticed that some of the VVs like to use the companion book, "An Invitation to the Wedding," to provide proof that the people behind the story are shipping the pair. Fair enough, it is mentioned multiple times that Victoria is supposed to be a heroine, as she's the ultimate winner of the triangle. But I would also like to point out that they also say, on page 21 (emphasis mine): "Just as important to Burton as finding the right setting for his story was getting the correct tone for the film's love triangle. 'We needed to find the proper balance, because in several drafts Victor leaned too much toward Corpse Bride, others leaned more toward Victoria. With this kind of love triangle, you need to feel for both women. The audience needed to feel that Victor wasn't a jerk, he had a really tough decision to make. Finally I felt good that we got the right balance." Yeah, I think you did too good a job!
-TTV: Oooh, God. . .don't any of them get along?-
. . . Actually, yes. I should point out that, over here on LJ, I saw the VVs and VEs actually getting along pretty well. And the VanDorks group on devART -- Victor's fanclub -- has (or had, at least) three officers -- one a VV, one a VE, and one a Victor/Other. Really, it isn't all fans who act like that. It's just those certain ones -- ! And I think it's a bit worse for me because of my Victoria/Victor/Emily shipping ways -- I get the feeling I'm seeing even more of the worst of the stupid because I'm right in the middle. God, I'd kill for a good threesome fic. There's not really any on FF.net.
-VD2: Really? None?-
There's a couple that come close -- one where Emily basically picks up Victor and Victoria upon their deaths, one where Victoria tells Victor she'll give him back to Emily after they die, and the one I feel is the closest, where Victoria gives Victor back to Emily, only to have them call her back and tell her, "Come with us -- we won't be happy without you." Not quite what I'm looking for, though I suppose what I'm looking for I'll have to write myself.
-M: *jokingly* You can't even pretend with any of the slash fics?-
No, though that's just because I find the premise of a couple implausible. I'm certainly not against Victoria/Emily, because of my threesome leanings, but really, any that start with Victoria putting the ring on Emily's finger should have this happen:
Emily: *rises from ground, lifts veil* I d-- you're a girl.
This is fictional repressed Victorian England, people. Get some mileage out of the fact they'd be angsting about their lesbianism on top of the potential necrophilia.
-MF: I think you need to go back to your Victor/Alice corner.-
I think I do too. I'm sorry for ranting at you all -- I just wanted it off my chest, and the people I want to rant to -- well, half aren't around anymore, and of those who remain, the ones who would get it aren't the ones I'm complaining about, and the ones I'm complaining about would probably just go, "Oh she's a V/_ shipper, figures." It doesn't help that I had kind of a lousy day at work, AND the red curse showed up about three hours ago. *sulks*
-HD: *hesitantly offers tea* Perhaps you should go back to reading your screencap playthrough?-
Yeah, I should. Getting close to the end here. And I really ought to figure out some sort of image to make for Valentine's. . . .
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-02-13 08:14 am (UTC)that's what she said. and by "she" I mean "Julie Andrews." check out that cigar, yeah
on another note:
look you up "Boston Marriage."
speaking of threesomes and moresomes, what's your view on the infamous johnny depp/helena bonham carter/tim burton/danny elfman love quadrangle?
no subject
Date: 2010-02-14 03:11 am (UTC)*looks up* Oh. Interesting. Still, I think it's safe to assume Emily would think a MAN would be proposing marriage, so. . . .
Eh, don't really have one. Real person relationships rarely interest me like that.